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QueenOnline Message Board Archive • View topic - If Brian and Roger...

If Brian and Roger...

Serious discussion about the band known as QUEEN.

Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby kenny8 on Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:18 am

Belle Leisha wrote:Heh, dude when the album first came out, the only reaction former dissenters was a begrudging "yeah well it's basically just a Paul Rodgers album" because it was pretty hard to criticise. Then it didn't sell at all, suddenly everyone hates it. Fickle is just not the word. :P


Pretty hard to criticise? Are you kidding?

Most reviewers didn't find it hard to criticise. It was generally regarded as a pretty lame album, well below what was expected considering the talent involved.

It's getting difficult taking you seriously if you can't even remember what it was like in 2006!
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Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby JLP on Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:38 am

kenny8 wrote:
Belle Leisha wrote:Heh, dude when the album first came out, the only reaction former dissenters was a begrudging "yeah well it's basically just a Paul Rodgers album" because it was pretty hard to criticise. Then it didn't sell at all, suddenly everyone hates it. Fickle is just not the word. :P


Pretty hard to criticise? Are you kidding?

Most reviewers didn't find it hard to criticise. It was generally regarded as a pretty lame album, well below what was expected considering the talent involved.

It's getting difficult taking you seriously if you can't even remember what it was like in 2006!


But then most reviews slated the early albums too.
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Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby MustaphaIbrahim on Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:51 am

This thread is so negative, you guys just want to complain about every little thing you can, I thought this was a message board for fans! I like coming on here to find out interesting stuff about the band I love, and I often get great stuff from here. All this negativity is making me spend less and less time on this site. For the record I saw Queen + Paul Rodgers twice during the Cosmos Rocks tour, I flew to Europe from Australia just to see them, as I had never seen them before, and it was the best concert (The one in Hamburg) that I'd ever seen in my life. Brian and Roger will do whatever they want to do to, it's their lives, if they choose to perform together again, then I'll be there what they have given to Rock n Roll music is invaluable.
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Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby Vali on Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:44 am

MustaphaIbrahim wrote:This thread is so negative, you guys just want to complain about every little thing you can, I thought this was a message board for fans! I like coming on here to find out interesting stuff about the band I love, and I often get great stuff from here. All this negativity is making me spend less and less time on this site. For the record I saw Queen + Paul Rodgers twice during the Cosmos Rocks tour, I flew to Europe from Australia just to see them, as I had never seen them before, and it was the best concert (The one in Hamburg) that I'd ever seen in my life. Brian and Roger will do whatever they want to do to, it's their lives, if they choose to perform together again, then I'll be there what they have given to Rock n Roll music is invaluable.


But this thread isn´t about how good or bad were Q+PR; I really enjoyed every minute of that adventure, really; since the very first minute I flew to London and attended the Brixton academy gig until the very last gig I attended from the Cosmos Rocks tour. God, it was Brian and Roger live !

I am one of those who think "Queen" was the 4-piece band we all learnt to love, with Freddie - of course - and John; but my love and passion for Roger, Brian and John made me believe, after Freddie´s passing, that the three remaining members were allowed to keep carrying the torch and always wanted them to continue making music, the three of them, even using the Queen name, if they wanted.

After NOBY, wich I trully supported, I had the hope they would continue doing new stuff, but after John´s retirement all my hope was gone. Then all of a sudden came the joining with Paul Rodgers and somehow blinded I kept supporting Brian and Roger using the name "Queen". All I wanted was seeing them together performing live again ... and I even enjoyed TCR, wich is an album I still listen to from time to time.

But, imho, many wrong decisions were taken during TCR tour; they almost repeated the same setlist and format as in the 2005/2006 tours, they didn´t follow their own claiming of being a new band that would play their new material, they chose releasing the Ukraine gig when it had anything fresh to offer, instead of the later gigs of the tour (ie: South America) etc etc etc etc ...

And then it came when realized I went wrong with my support of Brian and Roger using the "Queen+" name .... of course the commercial opportunities of that decision were better in terms of selling tickets and so on, but now I know many of us (included Brian, Roger and Paul, I dare to believe) would have been more relaxed and would have enjoyed more all the process in case they had decided using a new name for the new band they claimed they were. You have many examples out there: Audioslave was Audioslave, they weren´t Rage Against The Machine + Chris Cornell; Chickenfoot isn´t "Half Van Halen+the God Satriani+ 1/4 Red Hot Chilli Peppers"; and you have the recent example of Them Crooked Vultures, too.

I mean, with a correct marketing strategy, Brian May+Roger Taylor+Paul Rodgers could have done better, gained respect and, most important, avoided the fracture caused amongst the Queen fan base.

And this fracture, this let down in many, many of the long-loyal fans has turned into negativity and criticism when years go by and there is anything new, or better said, anything for the fans, to be offered.

We all know there are so many precious stuff inside the vaults; so many live recordings, so many demos, so many BBC sessions still waiting there in the dark, but we are only getting the Greatest Hits stuff again and again ... and then we look around us and see how ANY band or solo artist is releasing fresh and really attractive stuff for their fans; you can call it boxsets with unreleased tracks and B sides, you can call it full live performances for downloading from their respective websites .. you can call it whatever.

And no one will convience me this is a matter of manufacturing costs and things like that because, one again, many bands are doing it. Many of wich are still playing in a minor league than the brand "Queen" still plays.

Is this criticism? yes it is; have Brian, Roger and Jim the right to release whatever they want? yes they have, of course; but I also firmly believe that the fans, at this stage, in 2010, have the right to - pay attention, this is an almost forbidden verb -MOAN about the commercial directions the band has taken since, let´s say, Queen On Fire, wich I think is the last interesting product they released.
Bring out the charge of the love brigade ...
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Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby Belle Leisha on Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:28 pm

kenny8 wrote:
Belle Leisha wrote:I really wish it wasn't the case, it's not fair that something as light hearted and positive should now be something regretted by fans. But I can't force myself to agree with you because of that. I just don't.


You say "light hearted and positive" and I say crap.

Let's see...."regretted by fans", a commercial disaster and for the most part, critically reviled.

Yeah, that's a real feather in their cap.

At least Taylor has the common sense and the cred to become a cottage industry "indie"


Actually I was talking about Queen there, their name, not Q+PR. You're a little bit obsessed.

Queen were for the most part critically reviled, you'd have to be insane to expect Freddie-less Queen to be commercially well recieved, that's how hypcocritical music press can be, they weren't exactly Freddie's biggest fan either. So yeah, Q+PR really was a great feather in their cap, the album was always going to be difficult to sell and as they didn't bother to try they got what was to be expected, Q+PR the live band were phenomenal and the numbers of people who went to see them attest to that.

Common sense and "cred"? Which one of us is the teenager here? :lol: Roger Taylor's a rockstar, he's not going indie and if he did, he'd be selling himself a million miles short.

If I where Queen fan goggles you have a Roger fanboy thing going on. :lol: And yeah, I do tend to view everything they do in quite a positive light, that's why I'm a fan y'see, I rather like them, them the four people, and the music.
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Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby Pluto on Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:30 pm

Is there any chance that Hammi or GVH 3 will come out before 2011 or 2012? I'm not interested in the single releases or the vinyl re-issues at all...
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Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby Belle Leisha on Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:52 pm

kenny8 wrote:
Belle Leisha wrote:Heh, dude when the album first came out, the only reaction former dissenters was a begrudging "yeah well it's basically just a Paul Rodgers album" because it was pretty hard to criticise. Then it didn't sell at all, suddenly everyone hates it. Fickle is just not the word. :P


Pretty hard to criticise? Are you kidding?

Most reviewers didn't find it hard to criticise. It was generally regarded as a pretty lame album, well below what was expected considering the talent involved.

It's getting difficult taking you seriously if you can't even remember what it was like in 2006!


Yeah actually I have quite a few reviews from the time because I was interested y'see, some good, most bad and the thing that they really have in common is that all of the bad ones sort of ignored the album. Most of the reviews objected to them doing it, if at any point they bothered to actually reference a musical point it was all just "they're too old for that" kind of grabage and never actually a music review. You'd have to be pretty dense not to be able to acknowledge the musical competence involved.

I was here at the time and you could go back and check, no one here gave it real criticism either....until the sales didn't sort of...start...That's pretty lame to me, not to be able to form an opinion until you're sure something hasn't been well received. I loved it then and I love it now. You should listen to critics less, look what they had to say about Freddie.
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Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby fairydandy on Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:16 pm

kenny8 wrote:
fairydandy wrote:.....That said..the feeling of Queen live can still be created by Roger and Brian...


You never saw them with Freddie Mercury, I'm guessing?


I saw them eight times. I am not for one minute saying that they are anywhere near as good, just that the atmosphere and expectation in the concert hall is similar to that felt at a Queen show...you know, that buzz, that rush...well, it lasts until he sings anyway. :P
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Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby Belle Leisha on Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:19 pm

fairydandy wrote:
kenny8 wrote:
fairydandy wrote:.....That said..the feeling of Queen live can still be created by Roger and Brian...


You never saw them with Freddie Mercury, I'm guessing?


I saw them eight times. I am not for one minute saying that they are anywhere near as good, just that the atmosphere and expectation in the concert hall is similar to that felt at a Queen show...you know, that buzz, that rush...well, it lasts until he sings anyway. :P


Eight times, you bastard. :lol: Aah shut up. :P
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Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby kenny8 on Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:09 am

JLP wrote:
kenny8 wrote:
Belle Leisha wrote:Heh, dude when the album first came out, the only reaction former dissenters was a begrudging "yeah well it's basically just a Paul Rodgers album" because it was pretty hard to criticise. Then it didn't sell at all, suddenly everyone hates it. Fickle is just not the word. :P


Pretty hard to criticise? Are you kidding?

Most reviewers didn't find it hard to criticise. It was generally regarded as a pretty lame album, well below what was expected considering the talent involved.

It's getting difficult taking you seriously if you can't even remember what it was like in 2006!


But then most reviews slated the early albums too.


Oh, that old chestnut......we're not talking the early seventies, are we?

Are you seriously suggesting that Q+PR or Queen 2010 are in the same league as the poorly reviewed Queen of 1974??

No, didn't think so
Last edited by kenny8 on Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby kenny8 on Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:11 am

MustaphaIbrahim wrote:This thread is so negative, you guys just want to complain about every little thing you can, I thought this was a message board for fans! I like coming on here to find out interesting stuff about the band I love, and I often get great stuff from here. All this negativity is making me spend less and less time on this site. For the record I saw Queen + Paul Rodgers twice during the Cosmos Rocks tour, I flew to Europe from Australia just to see them, as I had never seen them before, and it was the best concert (The one in Hamburg) that I'd ever seen in my life. Brian and Roger will do whatever they want to do to, it's their lives, if they choose to perform together again, then I'll be there what they have given to Rock n Roll music is invaluable.


Nice. You should have seen the real Queen.
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Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby kenny8 on Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:14 am

Belle Leisha wrote:Common sense and "cred"? Which one of us is the teenager here? :lol: Roger Taylor's a rockstar, he's not going indie and if he did, he'd be selling himself a million miles short.

If I where Queen fan goggles you have a Roger fanboy thing going on. :lol: And yeah, I do tend to view everything they do in quite a positive light, that's why I'm a fan y'see, I rather like them, them the four people, and the music.


I love this sort of argument. Believe it or not, I love them too......but tend to be a little more cynical/realistic.

Like understanding that Taylor selling copies of his single in the "indie" manner he is doing equates to a cottage industry. Did you miss that? Must be those fan goggles.... :-P
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Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby kenny8 on Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:17 am

fairydandy wrote:I saw them eight times. I am not for one minute saying that they are anywhere near as good, just that the atmosphere and expectation in the concert hall is similar to that felt at a Queen show...you know, that buzz, that rush...well, it lasts until he sings anyway. :P


LOL

Kind of like sitting in the cinema and waiting for "The Phantom Menace" to start.....
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Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby eiricd on Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:18 am

kenny8 wrote:
Belle Leisha wrote:Heh, dude when the album first came out, the only reaction former dissenters was a begrudging "yeah well it's basically just a Paul Rodgers album" because it was pretty hard to criticise. Then it didn't sell at all, suddenly everyone hates it. Fickle is just not the word. :P


Pretty hard to criticise? Are you kidding?

Most reviewers didn't find it hard to criticise. It was generally regarded as a pretty lame album, well below what was expected considering the talent involved.

It's getting difficult taking you seriously if you can't even remember what it was like in 2006!


But then most reviews slated the early albums too.[/quote]

Oh, that old chestnut......we're not talking the early seventies, are we?

Are you seriously suggesting that Q+PR or Queen 2010 are in the same league as the poorly reviewed Queen of 1974??

No, didn't think so[/quote]

the point is that you cannot for one second refer to bad reviews if you want to build a case for "the content of the album is bad"
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Re: If Brian and Roger...

Postby kenny8 on Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:23 am

Belle Leisha wrote:Yeah actually I have quite a few reviews from the time because I was interested y'see, some good, most bad and the thing that they really have in common is that all of the bad ones sort of ignored the album. Most of the reviews objected to them doing it, if at any point they bothered to actually reference a musical point it was all just "they're too old for that" kind of grabage and never actually a music review. You'd have to be pretty dense not to be able to acknowledge the musical competence involved.

I was here at the time and you could go back and check, no one here gave it real criticism either....until the sales didn't sort of...start...That's pretty lame to me, not to be able to form an opinion until you're sure something hasn't been well received. I loved it then and I love it now. You should listen to critics less, look what they had to say about Freddie.


Most bad? That's what I was saying. And you'd have to be "dense" not to tell that there's three legendary rockers performing WELL below their past abilities

You know, I'm glad you enjoy it, but the fact remains that there's still the very real possibility that "TCR" just wasn't very good......
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